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Author: the.gray.fox (the [dot] gray [dot] fox [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 20-Oct-08, 15:09:35
Hello.
You know that smart players know they have to study the map in editor.

Triggers are easy to reach but not easy to understand.

If your map use triggers, it is fair to leave comments to explain what to expect.

Skeleton King map is a good example. The author made things fair for everyone by adding comments in plain english inside the trigger list.

You could do a similar thing.
And your players would not be scared anymore by your triggered map.

To leave comments is another way to spread knowledge.
Other map makers may comprehend triggers thanks to the comments, and decide to make their own triggered maps.

I believe I understand enough of triggers now. I could write tutorials if people are interested to learn.

-fox
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 19-Oct-08, 20:28:29
Thanks for the notes Gray Fox!

I believe the invisible border is created by rightclicking on the tiles.

Another trick is to teleport the original creature to a differend spot and than phase in a simular creature where the original just left. It looks like you are still fighting the same creature, but the one with the questitems just teleported away!

I did some phasing in and out on Repulsive Barony, but I notice one drawback: when players don't understand what is happening they give up and leave disappointed. I wonder how to prevent that.
 
Author: the.gray.fox (the [dot] gray [dot] fox [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 19-Oct-08, 16:40:12
Hello again.
And hello bbking :-)

I will annoy you some more with another post.

Maps can also contain invisible barriers placed on the landscape.
In the editor, Alt + Left Click on open terrain (or was it Shift + Click?)
The clicked tile will become a darker shade.
Alt Click again to revert the tile back to normal.

Barriers are visible in editor only.
They are permanent and can not be trespassed unless you fly or teleport.
Projectiles and magics will pass through, though.
Barriers are not controllable with triggers, so your players will know that if a barrier is there, a barrier will be there forever.

Barriers can be used creatively to build corridors or mazes even on open and plain terrain.

Other subtle uses comes to mind. A large opening populated with spiders may scare off the inexperienced player.
Maybe those spiders are confined within barriers, or maybe those barriers at some point create a narrow pathway suitable for a one on one fight.
It is a possible use if you remove wall of earth scrolls and warriors can no longer create defensive walls around them.



There is also another spectacular trigger in the editor.
Two triggers: PhaseIn and PhaseOut.
Two versions of them: those who work on a single creature, and those who work on a whole group.

PhaseOut makes the specified creature/group instantly disappear, and never return.
PhaseIn does the opposite, and a previously phased out creature/group will reappear at its last location at the time of phase out.
If the tile is currently occupied, the creature will reappear near by.
If no room is found within reasonable distance, the creature may not reappear.
The mechanics are the same used for the respawning process.

Phased creatures are not dead (and do not drop their loot).
They are like suspended in a non-existence.
They are invisible, untouchable and there is no way to interact with them (or them with you).

Only when they do phase in again they become active like any other (and can be killed, drop loot, respawn, etc).

You may phase out a group of monsters at the beginning of the map (maybe quest monsters, like in Skeleton King map), and then make them phase in when certain conditions are met.



A Polymorphed monster too could be a quest monster.
Imagine that near the start location of the map there is a monster like a squirrel.
Killing that squirrel now will not drop you anything. And the squirrel will not respawn because you set it to wait for 2 hours or something.

Goal of the map may be to complete tasks elsewhere, so that the squirrel is then polymorphed into another squirrel, but this time a quest gear carrier.
With triggers you can check if the previous squirrel is still alive before doing the polymorph.
If he is dead, then no polymorph. And no reward.
When a creature is polymorphed, the original creature disappears, as if phased out.
Instead a new creature appear in place, as if phased in.
Polymorph is a one way process, but you can chain several polymorphs together.

You can make it nasty. Instead of a squirrel it could be a level 1 bat with 1 health point, placed right near the start location, so that it begins to annoy you from the first moment you appear.
But you can not kill the bat, or you will never get your reward...
And you must be careful the bat does not get killed by other creatures who may be hostile to that bat (just set the players diplomacy for that).
So you have to perform tasks on the map, and protect the annoying bat from harm.
When the tasks are complete, the bat may polymorph, and you can finally kill him and collect the drop.
You could break the goal in several tasks, and when each task is completed, the bat polymorphs into a bat of higher level. This would force the player to complete your tasks in a specific order.

A teleporting mage would be advantaged in this. He could outrun the bat easily, leaving him in a safe area.
But there are triggers to boss the creatures around (is -boss around- correct to say?)
You can issue commands like move, attack, swarm to...
You can not detect the player position (not in multiplayer), but you can detect any other creature position by defining rectangles and detecting when a certain monster has entered the bounds of a certain rectangle.
When you approach a monster, he moves towards you. That is how you know roughly where the player is at the moment. Because if the monster moved, the player must be in sight.
At that point order the little bat to move to a location presumibly near the player, and the trick is done. The bat spot your mage again, and chase.
The mage player may teleport around, but the bat will always catch up.
And since your goal is to have the bat killed when he polymorphed the last time, you can not afford to leave him behind, or a respawned monster may kill it before time while you are away.
It gets nastier for mages. Prismatic spray and other area spells may not be an option, because the little bat may get in the way and be killed by mistake...
To limit happy teleport activity, you may have some gap between the areas in which you have to kill certain monsters.
In those useless gaps other monsters (or traps) may be placed, with the purpose to intercept and kill the moving bat.
In this way the mage can not afford to teleport far away by jumping the twisting road, or the next time the bat will move (in a straight line to catch up with the mage), it may run into those interceptors.


Flawless.
(I practice my english while at it. Next posts will be shorter)
-fox
 
Author: bbKing (arsnova30 [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 19-Oct-08, 16:21:24
thank you grey fox for you extensive comment.
knowledgeable, as usual.
i may not be able to grasp all of it ever, as i'm not suited for this kind of mathematical logic, i do appreciate your time and effort nevertheless.
 
Author: the.gray.fox (the [dot] gray [dot] fox [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 19-Oct-08, 12:36:44
Hello all.
Mages do not have the firepower of warriors.

If you want a mage to play the mage role, you must make monsters easier.
But then warriors tend to have a much easier life.
If you ban all scrolls completely, then warriors are in trouble more than they deserve.

It is very hard to balance the two types.

My personal recipe (I learned 'recipe' :-) is:
-- use level 4 monsters the most

-- use only the lowest threat of level 5 monsters (no spiders, no dragons, no bats, no ogres, no trolls)

-- ban scrolls completely

Quest gear does not need to necessarily have body higher than what you can buy from shops. Such quest gear can be made valuable and wanted all the same by adding more extra properties that you can not normally find in shops.

The editor is a powerful tool once you know how to use its features.
Many monsters can wield the items they carry (look at their picture to guess what they can naturally use).

Example:
-- Ogres can wield Wood Clubs
-- Skeletons can wield helms and armors and swords and shields
-- Archers can wield bows or crossbows
-- Some human mercenaries can wield a complete set of armor
-- Mages can wield staves (staves = plural of staff :-) or even clothes

Wielded items can be enchanted like quest gear, and give more health, or defense, or more powers like a firewall or blizzard, etc...
Use these to make your monsters more threatening to the player. No need to be level 5 to spell trouble.
Wielded items can not be inspected by the player and can not crash his game. Thus they can hold more than 8 properties.

Wielded gear does not drop when the monster is killed.
If you want a monster to drop the weapon he used against you, you must give him 2 copies of the same piece.
One copy is wielded and not dropped.
The other copy is not used and will be dropped for the player.
Make sure the dropped copy is legal (in case you made the wielded copy overpowered with more than 8 properties).

By the way. The limit is not 8 properties. It is 8 lines of text in the tooltip window.
Some properties produce 2 lines of text, be careful.
If you exceed the 8 lines limit, the item will crash the player's game when he inspects it.

Monsters can also be set to give no experience and no gold for the kill.
Use this feature in a creative way, by forcing players to break through a blockade of potent defenders just to reach the area of interest.



If you limit body gear, then most level 5 monsters become impossible to beat.
One of the triggers in the editor is named Polymorph.
It permanently changes one creature into another, of different type and level if you like.
Since Skeleton King was mentioned, Master used Polymorph to change a level 5 spider into a level 4 one. That was a clever trick.

Polymorph can be used to force your players to stay away from a key area of the map so long it is populated by impossible foes.
When the player has accomplished certain things, polymorh can reduce the level of those guardians and the player can face them to proceed in his quest.

Use your imagination. The editor is more than just placing level 5 monsters.

As always, my logic is flawless
(and my english is bettering)
-fox
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 18-Oct-08, 16:06:24
Slowly but surely the gameplay ideas of this hat crystalize. I want to make the differences between mages and warriors more clearly: Mages should not play like warriors with tons of body, healthregeneration and defence, and warriors should not play like mages, carrying lots of scrolls. Now it's easier to accomplish the first thing: simply allow higher body, defence, absorbtion etc. bonusses on fighter gear and lower on mage gear.

I have started adjusting some maps, and creating some new ones.
This is a lot of work, especially since some maps contain tons of gear. Early birds are in luck here: they may keep what they gathered until I restart the hat.

As for the scrolls: in a number of future maps some scrolltypes will be banned.

Today I renewed the questmaps in Diabolic Machine. Plus some minor changes on the other servers.

Have fun!
 
Author: bbKing (arsnova30 [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 16-Oct-08, 17:30:24
as long as you mention it in map editor's "Global description and settings" i personally see no harm whatsoever in changing or improving the map, be it items or even lay-out.
depending on the idea behind the hat, maps should be prepared according to that idea. this way you get a more or less even balanced hat.
that's what i always tried to achieve. not everyone is always charmed of the particular underlying idea, but hey as hatmaster it's up to you.
i know all too well that it involves a lot of work, but as long as people find it enjoyable to play, that's the reward.
i agree with NOVA on the way the items should be. FireFly learned me how to do it also. I don't understand why it should be like that, but i gladly take the experts' word for it.
First line: price set to 2.
Next lines: magic and body
Total number of lines up to 8 max!
I'm not a map maker, but i've changed a lot of maps as to specific items, in order to get the best result for my hats.

Now that the body items no longer reset after leaving the map, we can build on a decent horror char. Please give horror maps more than one interesting quest item, Simon.
For instance, Master's Skeleton King's Quest map has lots of it but they are also very tough to get. Plus you really need to know what you're doing to get to the first prize that the sheep in the center carries. A strong and skillful enough mage could do it on his own, but first we need better gear than we have now. Mind you, I'm not claiming to be skillful mage, not by a long shot :).
Your hat is getting better all the time, Simon. Good work! If you like me to send you some maps i edited, just let me know. Might save you a lot of work.
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 15-Oct-08, 08:03:03
Noticed some new names on Hamachi and a msg about creating an account.

New players cannot sign up automatically. Accounts have to be made by the host. If you want to play on Atton's server mail him for an account, if you want to play on mine, mail me. It is also possible to tell the accountname/password on hamachi if you are logged in, but its risky since you need to be sure to be on the private channel, not the public.
 
Author: NOVA (KINGKOTA666 [at] HOTMAIL [dot] COM)
Date: 15-Oct-08, 00:24:57
I agree with you on being reluctant to alter other people's maps, but I do it occasionally none-the-less. There are a few obscure maps that are my favorites, but I think they need to be altered or updated to compensate for the changing times or the higher skill levels of the players these days. When I do make changes, I make it quite clear I have done so. I append the map name by adding a prefix (for instance C5_mapname) plus I add a note to the global description such as "modded by NOVA". This respects the original map maker by clearly giving credit to them as the original author while at the same time also clearly identifies that I have intentionally made alterations to it.

I like the idea of revolving (changing) quest maps. This will mean each player will have somewhat different equipment rather than everyone walking around looking the same. However, it will be challenging for you to make that gear of comparable power so people don't feel cheated for having missed a particular map. You'll have a tough job accomplishing that, so good luck.

I swear I must just be unlucky because I've shopped for several hours looking for any body +3 armor and have found NONE. I have found over 50 items with spirit mind or agility +3 on them however. And I've searched in the shops on all the maps. It almost seems as though you have either altered the world.res file to restrict body to +2 maximum, or you have altered the items magic level cost so that body bonus now costs more than it used to so that it will not generate a +3 body item randomly (which seems unlikely since I can find plenty of mage gear with +3 body on it). Maybe it was just my unlucky day...haha. At least my mage has a full set of gear.

-NOVA
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 14-Oct-08, 21:13:47
[i]1. NONE of the items on alderon's tomb have price set to 2.[/i]

Aldaron's tomb is not a map of my own.*

[i]2. the mail on landover resets because the price is not set on it either.[/i]

The price of the dragonleather mail is set to 2 in the first line, but the item is probably overpowered.*

*The current selection of questmaps is a bit trial and error. Just take what you can use. There will be other maps later. Actually I did not expect someone to beat them so soon :)
Generally I don't like to change maps made by someone else, unless its to remake it into something completely differend. I noticed Landover is a bit too generous in itemdrops. I'll change that this weekend. Aldaron's tomb will probably be replaced by a differend map at the same time. Actually I'm thinking of a weekly change of questmaps.
 
Author: NOVA (KINGKOTA666 [at] HOTMAIL [dot] COM)
Date: 14-Oct-08, 18:46:50
Excellent news on the amulet. I'll check that out next chance I get (may be at least 24 hours as I'm busy for a while).

I personally find that it's best practice to make the first line of all quest items something that either cannot reset lower (ie make it 1 of something already) or make it the stat you wouldn't mind resetting if it does. That's because sometimes the game messes up and even though it has a price of 2, the first line resets to a "shop legal" value anyway. I added a dummy line to many of the items on my maps to get around this problem (such as making the first magic line health +1). It has no material affect on the power of the item, but it ensures all magic lines below it remain unchanged.

Several more items on maps you need to consider altering:

1. NONE of the items on alderon's tomb have price set to 2.

2. the mail on landover resets because the price is not set on it either.


Those are the only ones I've looked at so far.

-NOVA
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 14-Oct-08, 14:00:13
Alright, since its indeed hard to get the amulet, I changed funcionality:

Price 2
Body 4
Healthreg 25

Did not test it though. Hope it works.
 
Author: NOVA (KINGKOTA666 [at] HOTMAIL [dot] COM)
Date: 14-Oct-08, 00:41:22
I already have one. That's how I know for certain that it resets.
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 21:10:58
Nova, about the amulet, I'll take it into considereation. Did you already get one or did you just look at the map in the editor?
 
Author: NOVA (KINGKOTA666 [at] HOTMAIL [dot] COM)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 20:39:47
That's a shame on the amulet. This thing is utterly useless as a b2 amulet. You do have to navigate an undead pit filled with level 5 skeletons and liches to get it (who are most often invisible). So it's not exactly a cake walk to get. An amulet purchased from the shops (b3) is much better and involves zero risk. The b2 amulet you have on easy map Ahkram is essentially the same and there is virtually no risk to get that amulet. As I say, this amulet as a b2 is worthless (it's certainly not worth the risk required to get it). But ok, that's your call. I just wanted to point it out.

The pods I also agree are way too easy to get. But then you have pods growing on trees on plenty of other maps, so that's at least in keeping with the theme of the whole HAT. Aside from the standard way to get pods (quest rewards), the ones on Sareth are actually the hardest ones to get but only because you have to kill a level 5 turtle for the group to respawn. If you can't kill the turtle, you only get one of each pod for each time the map comes around in the rotation. Of course if you're clever, you can figure out how to kill the turtle with little problem.

As to the pricing for mage books, I like it. Mages have such a HUGE advantage in the early game it's just no contest. At least this way fighters can be equipped for WAY less money (at least in the early game). For about 2 million, you can have a decent set of meteoric gear for a fighter. At these mage book prices, you can't even get one decent spellbook for that. It puts some challenge back into being a mage because you have to work a LOT harder to get those "essential" spell books (like teleport at 30 million, or blizzard at 10 million). Even firewall now costs 3 million. To get a full complement of spell books, you're looking at upwards of 220 million gold (mind you 90 million of that is just for stone curse). And you still have to pay for the rest of your gear (cloak, gloves, staves, etc). A fully outfitted fighter (with a decent complement of potions and scrolls, armor and weapons) generally costs around 150 million. So if you ignore the stone curse spell book, it's actually about the same money to to equip a mage and a fighter. The mage costs are just concentrated into a few VERY expensive items. But you don't lose these items (your learned spells) when you die. I like it.

-NOVA
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 19:29:01
Update:

The inns on Tantalization no longer have the package delivery quest.

About Sareth:
I made that map long ago and indeed the price of the amulet was not set correctly. But it's not a questmap and therefore the bonusses on this map (pods, this amulet) are fair enough. That was the reason I never changed it. And since its an old map I want to prevent differend versions being around, so I keep it this way.

Speed: Actually I set it to 8 before lol! Now it's 6. Slower would be no fun for players who need to walk. The server is meant for fast action, so I don't want to set speed slower.

Magic stuff... Yeah, there is a reason for that, but not what you think. Magicians can be sooo strong on this map. The prices are really worth it!
 
Author: NOVA (KINGKOTA666 [at] HOTMAIL [dot] COM)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 18:11:17
Couple of observations for you on this HAT:

1. You might want to change which item is specified as the "item delivery" quest at the inns on your new Tantalization map. I did that quest and was given a BLANK patch in my inventory which does NOT go away even after you complete the quest. But that's not the bad part. This item is undroppable and crashes your game when you hold your cursor over it and even sometimes just when you open your inventory and move other things around. I had to work for about 5 minutes with many many game crashes just to drop everything else and then DIE on purpose to get rid of this thing.

2. The amulet on Sareth does not have the price set to 2 gold. So once you leave the map it resets from (body 4) down to (body 2). I'm presuming you intend this item to really be (body 4) since this is a horror quest map. If so, you'll need to edit the map.

-NOVA
 
Author: Lord Atton (cosmclord [at] yahoo [dot] com)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 06:57:55
Albadaran,

Playing on your server. Whats with the high prices for Mage spells? You anti mages? I still think the server map speed is too fast. This is especially true for newbie chrs.

On the plus side nice maps. There are new to me. I have not started making maps for my own GW (Green World) but I plan too. I will also be running NeverWinter Nights 1 as the GreenWorld that follows my novel of the same name.

I am enjoyng your Rom2 Hat.

Take care,

Lord Atton
 
Author: bbKing (arsnova30 [at] hotmail [dot] com)
Date: 13-Oct-08, 01:22:19
i'll try later today. hope i won't forget lol.
also hope i get rom2 working, as hamachi won't be a problem i expect.
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 12-Oct-08, 21:36:07
Healing problem fixed. It was an old experimental world.res file where healing potions were dissabled lol. Fixed it and increased effectiveness to provide horrormap players a little aid in their continuing struggle for glory :)
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 12-Oct-08, 13:02:59
Update:

There is a weird issue about healing: healing pods and healing fountains frequently don't respond when used. I'm running the old hatsoftware, so that can't be the problem, unless its one of the 'patches' (turned off map level for high level chr's and use Ex-lends patch for making shorter maptime rotation).

Added a new hard map: Tantalization. A tough one! Gameplay something in between Tier and Beastmasters. So take care.

I notice 12 subsctiptions to Atton's hamachi server. I don't know if new players can join anymore. Wasn't 12 max? And do turned off computers also count?
 
Author: Albadaran (simondekker [at] hotmai [dot] com)
Date: 11-Oct-08, 13:49:28
Tested it yesterday with Nova; he could log on and play.

Server is up now on Atton's hamachi network. I've sent accounts to Nova, Atton, Astro and BBKing. If someone likes to join, msg me on the hamachi server. For new hamachi users: if you like to join msg Atton for the network password. And of course you can create a rom2 account on his hat as well! Don't wait too long, since hamachi (free) can only handle a limited amount of useraccounts.

This will be a serverstresstest I suppose :)
Rom2 hat is on my 7 years old computer, which has never been on for longer than 2 days.
I did not add Ex-lends patches yet, and I don't intent to closely watch what is happening. Just play the way you like. So will I :)

Later next week I'll apply some patches. I'ts a lot of typing and a typemismatch would crash the program. So I'll be doing that on backups.
I also be making backups of the running server, so msg me if something terrible happened to your chr.

Have fun!
 
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